Frequent Comments About K-Pop

If you're a fan of K-pop, it's likely you've heard one or most or all of these harmful comments. In my two years (and counting) of being a fan of several artists, I have observed all of these comments myself, noticing a stigma around K-pop that has become so normalized in society. It is often overlooked that these comments are rooted in ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, toxic masculinity, ageism, and homophobia. I decided to compile a list of these comments and how I have personally responded to them in case it may help anyone else. These responses were borne out of my personal experiences in the world of K-pop, as well as my own training as a sociologist.

Table of Contents

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Note: I originally created this post with mostly BTS in mind as they are the group I have been a fan of the longest, so you will see that several of these examples involve them. I adapted the language to be as general as possible, but I am happy to receive feedback or suggestions for additional examples to include, especially for girl groups as I am less familiar with girl group culture.

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Last updated October 22, 2020

"There are more important things to worry about!"

I agree. There are far more important issues going on right now than this whole think piece I’m writing about K-pop. And, that doesn’t mean this shouldn’t be said anyway. Sexism, racism, ethnocentrism, toxic masculinity, homophobia, ageism — these are wrongs that pervade all aspects of our lives. I know plenty of people who say they are dedicated to combating such concerns, and yet will turn around and say any single one of the comments I unpack in this carrd with no problem just because it’s about a band and not a violent hate crime. Harmful things don’t have to be taken to an extreme for you to care about them. Check yourselves. You would be surprised where your internalized “-isms” show up, even with something as seemingly harmless as music. Dismantle your internalized oppression in ALL areas of your life, even on the smallest of scales.

Also, in addition to tackling the societal issues that come with this topic, this sort of statement invalidates the fact that everyone needs an outlet. K-pop just happens to be mine, and many others’, now more than ever when so much is going on.

"The men look like girls!"

When you say this, you demonstrate just how much you have bought into toxic masculinity. A man’s identity means he is a man, no matter what he looks like. Furthermore, I often hear this statement said as though it is intended to be offensive — demonstrating that deep down, you may think it is inappropriate or wrong to “look like a girl.” It is a many-layered display of how anything feminine continues to be seen as inferior. Lastly, a lot of this has to do with different beauty standards. Western beauty standards are not the end all, be all. Consider for a moment just how deeply rooted your definition of “beauty” is rooted in Eurocentrism, whiteness, and/or toxic masculinity; at the end of the day, this is not the insult/funny comment you think it is. It just ends up being a display of your own internalized ethnocentrism, toxic masculinity, and misogyny.

“The men look gay!”

Again, I often hear this comment as if it were intended to be an insult. How absolutely disgusting it is to use a very real and valid identity as an insult. Put simply, it is homophobic. Also, it is not possible to “look gay.” The LGBTQ+ community is so diverse, it’s absolutely unfair to pigeonhole any single one person into “looking” a certain way. You just perpetuate harmful stereotypes with this comment, and again, you’re the one who looks like a jerk, rather than the K-pop fan or artist you’re trying to make fun of.

"How can you even tell any of them apart? They all look the same!"

As an Asian myself, I have heard this said one too many times, and again with very insulting intentions. Did you know this comment is actually very exhausting to deal with? Yes, the cross-race effect does exist, but this is often said a dismissive, stereotypical context. It's actually not that difficult to tell members of my favorite groups apart, because each of them have distinct features from each other just like anyone else does, person to person. It simply takes time and effort, the way I would take time and effort to learn any single one of my friends' family members of a different race. It's all because I care, and because I know better than to dismiss what, or who, is important to me.

Further reading:

“You know they don’t even know you exist, right? That’s not even their real personalities you love, it’s just a manufactured persona for the public.”

Yes, in the grand scheme of things, I might know everything there is publicly available to know about Kim Namjoon, and the very most he may know of me is that I was a speck of waving light in a sea of thousands, or one person among a million who screamed “I LOVE YOU” in all caps under his latest tweet. I. Do. Not. Care. I am well aware that the K-pop idol industry capitalizes off of parasocial relationships between idol persona and fan. I am aware of it, and I continue to engage in it. I have experienced enough harm at the hands of “real” relationships; please do not dictate to me or anyone else that I cannot find real joy and comfort in the work my favorite artists put out, no matter how manufactured someone else may think it is.

“K-pop fans are just a bunch of screaming teenage girls!”

First of all, you would be surprised. While the majority of fan demographics may indicate a predominantly female population, it is still not okay to generalize. Please do not dismiss the massive population of working adults of a variety of different genders, sexualities, nationalities, and ethnicities, who also love what they love. Do you really think a bunch of “screaming teenage girls” sold out the BTS-endorsed Hyundai Palisade, or within only 24 hours matched BTS’s $1 million donation to Black Lives Matter? And second of all, even if this were the case, why is this a problem? To complain about a group of people as “just a bunch of screaming teenage girls” as though it makes it any less worthy of consideration is another example of how anything associated with femininity is looked down upon.

Why is it that no one blinks an eye at sports fans for attending every single game of their favorite team, but as soon as I talk about going to both nights BTS were at Soldier Field, it’s immediately dismissed as “fangirl craze”? Just let people love what they love, and don’t use it as an insult against them. My good friend Lauren has a concise and informative Twitter thread here where she articulates this comparison between sports fans and BTS fans much better than I can, linked with her permission here. In further unpacking this “screaming teenage girls” comment, I’d also like to bring up the general stereotype that teenage girls are seen as mindless, dumb, and obsessive, a stereotype which of course is also rooted in misogyny as it distracts from the fact that teenage girls can be both intelligent and have the capacity to support their favorite artists.

So lastly… after I’ve explained all of that, all the very real diversities within the fan community, all the commentary regarding young women’s capacity to be both intelligent and enjoy their interests, I will reiterate: SO WHAT if at the end of the day K-pop fans really are “just a bunch of screaming teenage girls"? Really think about what you’re saying and what you’re implicitly communicating by implying this is something wrong.

Source: @ResearchBTS

“How can you even listen to music that you don’t understand?”

Music is a language in and of itself, and it transcends national borders. It is only one extra step to look up lyric translations, and I don’t mind putting forth the minimal effort for that at all. Just as Western beauty standards are not the end all, be all of beauty, the Western music industry is not the end all, be all for music. As director Bong Joon-Ho said at the 2020 Oscars after Parasite won Best Picture, “Once you overcome the one-inch tall barrier of subtitles, you will be introduced to so many more amazing films.” The same stands for music. Don’t allow your own ethnocentrism to limit you from what’s out there.

Furthermore, let’s talk a little bit more about Eurocentrism, shall we? Consider opera and how it’s in Italian and German, and yet people all over the world listen to it and consider it to be “high class.” What does it say about what we value as a society when solely English-speakers can listen to music from European/Western countries and is seen as having high taste, but dismiss music from the East, whatever form it is in?

Lastly, do you ask this question to people who enjoy classical music who don’t play a classical instrument, or who listen to instrumental music that has no lyrics at all? I don’t understand how to play the flute, but that does not stop me from enjoying the sound of it. The voice is, at the core, another instrument that can convey emotion and a story regardless if we understand it perfectly or not, and we can still appreciate musical qualities like the sounds of rhymes, rhythms, etc. created by it.

“They don’t actually have talent, they’re all autotuned.”

LOL. No. Please trust me on this, as someone who has listened to my faves' studio albums front to back day in day out and has seen them live several times (in addition to videos of live performances), I can tell the difference between their live vocals and studio vocals. And they CAN sing live. While dancing intense choreography. Nice try.

“They’re overrated! They only have a lot of fans because people think they look hot! Their fans don’t even like them for their music!”

This one is really, really funny to me. Yes, they’re popular and they have a lot of fans. But… they have a lot of fans because they do things that people like???? That’s how these things work????? It’s not for nothing.

Sure, there are a lot of aesthetically pleasing things about them, there’s no denying that. But, for example, BTS's work consists not just of shallow pop lyrics that are catchy, but also, if you just take the time to look into it, scholarly and literary content that have helped fans grow in their understanding and appreciation of things beyond pop, from classic literature to Jungian psychology to contemporary art.

Lastly, the comment “They only have a lot of fans because people think they look hot” can also be sexist as it invalidates the idea that women can be sexual. In the past, teenage boys have had posters of Playboy models on their walls and it’s simply “boys will be boys.” And yet, when a girl or woman expresses any sort of attraction to a person, even at the most base level of finding them attractive, they’re dismissed as shallow. Thankfully, this has started to get dismantled more and more, but we certainly have a lot farther to go.

Comentarios frecuentes sobre Música Coreana (K-Pop)

Si eres fanático del K-pop, es probable que hayas escuhado uno, la mayoría o todos éstos comentarios dañinos. En mis dos años (y continuando) de ser fan de varios artistas, yo personalmente he observado todos estos comentarios, notando un estigma alrededor de K-pop que se ha vuelto tan normal en la sociedad. A menudo se pasa por alto que estos comentarios tienen sus raíces en el etnocentrismo, el racismo, el sexismo, la masculinidad tóxica, la descriminación por edad y la homofobia. Decidí compilar una lista de estos comentarios y cómo personalmente en caso de que pueda ayudar a alguien más. Estas respuestas nacieron de mis experiencias personales en el mundo del K-pop, así como de mi propia formación como sociólogo.

Traducido por Ivania Gonzalez.

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Nota: Originalmente hice esta publicación pensando principalmente en BTS, ya que son el grupo del que he sido fan por más tiempo como pueden ver que varios de estos ejemplos los involucran. Yo traté de expresarme de una manera donde podía hablar en general sobre los grupos de K-pop. Sin embargo, me alegra recibir comentarios o sugerencias para incluir ejemplos adicionales, especialmente para grupos de chicas, ya que no estoy tan familiarizada con la cultura de los grupos de chicas.

Por favor llena este formulario para las sugerencias para mejorar!

Nueva actualización en 22 del octubre, 2020

“¡Hay cosas más importantes de qué preocuparse!”

Estoy de acuerdo. Hay temas mucho más importantes en este momento que lo que estoy escribiendo sobre el K-pop. Pero eso no significa que no debiera decir esto de todos modos. Sexismo, racismo, etnocentrismo, masculinidad tóxica, homofobia, discriminación por motivos de edad: estos son errores que impregnan todos los aspectos de nuestras vidas. Conozco a muchas personas que dicen que están dedicadas a combatir estas preocupaciones y, sin embargo, se darán la vuelta y dirán cualquiera de los comentarios que analizo en esta página sin ningún problema solo porque se trata de una banda y no de un crimen de odio violento. No es necesario llevar las cosas dañinas al extremo para que te preocupes por ellas. Comprueben ustedes mismos. Te sorprendería ver dónde apareces tú mismo dentro de los “-ismos” internalizados, hasta con algo aparentemente inofensivo como la música. Desmantele su opresión internalizada en TODAS las áreas de su vida, incluso en la más pequeña de las escalas.

Además de abordar los problemas sociales que vienen con este tema, este tipo de declaración invalida el hecho de que todos necesitan una salida. El K-pop resulta ser mío, y de muchos otros, ahora más que nunca cuando están sucediendo tantas cosas.

“¡Ellos se ven como mujeres/chicas!”

Cuando dices esto, demuestras tus pensamientos tóxicos de masculinidad. La identidad de un hombre significa que es un hombre, sin importar su apariencia. Además, a menudo escucho decir esta declaración como si tuviera la intención de ser ofensiva-lo que demuestra que en el fondo piensan que es inapropiado o incorrecto "parecer una niña." Es una muestra de cómo todo lo femenino sigue siendo visto como inferior. Por último, mucho de esto tiene que ver con diferentes estándares de belleza. Considera por un momento que el eurocentrismo, la blancura y / o la masculinidad tóxica profundamente afecta tu definición de "belleza." Al final del día, esto no es un insulto / comentario divertido que crees que es. Simplemente termina siendo una muestra de tu propio etnocentrismo internalizado, masculinidad tóxica y misoginia.

“¡Ellos se ven como homosexuales/gay!”

Nuevamente, a menudo escucho este comentario como si tuviera la intención de ser un insulto. Cuán absolutamente repugnante es usar una identidad muy real y válida como un insulto. En pocas palabras, es homofóbico. Además, no es posible "parecer gay." La comunidad LGBTQ + es tan diversa que es absolutamente injusto encasillar a una sola persona para que "mire" de cierta manera. Simplemente perpetúas los estereotipos dañinos con este comentario, y nuevamente, eres tú quien parece un idiota, en lugar del fanático o artista del K-pop del que estás tratando de burlarte.